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The Picken's Plan???
I just want to point out that the plan is great for promoting wind BUT wind needs to be stored since it is intermittent. Electric vehicles with V2G could do that. We already dump mega watts from power plant at night.
When is proposes using Natural Gas in cars it loses 85% of it in the very inefficient Internal Combustion Engine ICE. They waste 85% into heat and friction. Also when a NG vehicle goes downhill or stops it wastes all the energy in brakes making heat and friction and brake dust. An electric could save and reuse that energy !
If that NG is used to make power at a plant it can use combines cycle which makes power out of the waste heat as well ans the heat for power. They are double the efficiency.
So if he could just see how advanced battery AC drive electric vehicles are much better and plug-ins are a big key he would have the best plan for everyone.
the solar stacks
Hi jstack,
So are you saying that until and unless we do ir "right" we should continue on out merry way importing oil??? I didn't think so.
Pickens Plan is a stop-gap measure for the transportation sector. It has 2 clear and achievable goals. Less imported oil, and wind generating infrastructure. In that regard it is a clear winner over what either candidate is proposing.
An even better solution is my S&T Distributed CSP technology. Why? Because Pickens can satisfy 22% of the electrical demand with wind, and I can satisfy 33% with solar! If we do them both that would cut into coal consumption too! How's that for cleaner air???
The Light is Green!
cyankee,
I didn't say to not do anything. I just wanted people to know what was good and not good about the pickens plan. Also how adding plug-in vehicles would improve the wind part and let the NG stay running combined cycle power systems and be really good.
I'm all for renewables and efficiency, we can run everything with solar, wind, geo-thermal and hydro. We can even make extra and export it. Renewables also add lots of real jobs that can't be off shored, since they have to be done right here.
My favorite solar panels are 100% all american evergreen solar with the lowest carbon foot print in the world.
I know nuclear is the most expensive power in the world. It have many major problems that haven't been solved in 30 years. I know we hit peak natural gas in 2004 and now import from Canada who is also running very low. NG, COAL and NUKE also use a tremendous amount of water to make power. Renewables don't use any and have free fuel.
Let's move ahead and use the best choices now. I's already 500% green at my home and transportation.
the solar stacks
Hi jstack,
You bent the nail on that one... You said: "*IF* (emphasis mine) we could use NG in CHP ..." That's the problem! You're right! But we currently have no applications for waste heat! If we did there are Exa-Joules (10^18) of waste heat available now... But no one is using it!
Fully 2/3rds of the value of the fuel we burn todat is being *wasted*; but you knew that. That's inertai that we cannot overcome in a reasonable timeframe.
So rather than try to stop the juggernaut, we alter it's course slightly.
BTW, I've liked Evergreen eversince I saw string-ribbon. But I can't wait to obsolete them and every other PV shop with my S&T CSP system because I'll be able to produce _installed_ systems for $3/Watt or less. No PV technology in the world willbe able to match that with the durability & ruggeddness we offer.
You seem to be twisting and changing what I said. We use Combines Heat Power CHP on 90% of the US power plants for NG. We have since the 1990's. So you don't change it I should have said when we use CHP not IF we use it.
The pint being power plants using CHP are much more efficient than a ICE Internal Combustion Engine car burning NG. LNG is even worse.
the solar stacks
Ummm... the only NG plants that are truly CHP are the few DG generators, that've been installed; which I partly support.
Last year (?, 2006 possibly?) Sikorsky Aircraft, a subsidiary of United Technologies Corp, managed to wrangle several million $$$ out of the state of CT to switch their Stratford facility from grid electricity to a NG Fuel Cell w/CHP. Their FC is sucking on the same NG pieline that was feeding the power plant. Yes they are using *some* of the waste heat to supplement what was being produced by boilers. But my peeve is more about how they stuck it to the state, than about any percieved savings or additional fuel efficienct they achieved. The power plant has reported no diminution if power production, and we can only assume that the flow of NG in the pipeline has not decreased.
Just because gas can be piped form point to point does not mean it is the best fuel for fixed generation... Well, actually it *does* make it very attractive.
Boone wants to replace the fixed generation with Wind, I want to do the same thing with Solar. From any rational point of view, except instant demand, both wind and solar are vastly superior solutions to the long term problem.. The demand issue will never go away, but peaking with gas after most of the baseload is renewable has got to be a more sustainable solution that drawing down finite gas, oil, & coal, for baseload.
I really like the Pickens Plan - I think that it's definitely a positive plan for our country - we absolutely must remove our dependence on foreign oil in order to be a viable economy for our future. Not sure if I completely agree with wind energy as a strong solution as I've recently learned there may be some bad effects in regards to global warming as a result of "slowing down" the winds. That remains to be seen though and more research may be able to prove whether it's an issue or not. As for the the premise of Mr. Pickens plan, I am absolutely in support. I believe that natural gas is a great option, but I'm also very much in support of clean nuclear energy.
Charley
Profit motive - Good.
Fixing things - Good.
Promoting a whole new social structure - Fantastic.
Mr. Pickens is offering a route to get off oil - Real Good.
He deserves support for getting things moving towards rejigging the oil industry. His suggestions for change had to be sold to his whole organization. In light of that he has 'awakened a sleeping giant'.
The groups that are organizing under Mr. Pickens umbrella will probably be more effective at selling some version of an off oil program to local communties, but if he can sell his plan to Government the doors will be wide open for all the environmentallists. It is a real educational opportunity. Please come along for the ride.
It's easy to criticize what you don't understand. It's also easy to criticize fly-by-night scam artists as I've dome here in the past... "But that's not important now." -- Leslie Nielsen in Airplane
Seriously... I say Boone is in it to make $$$, **and** to help the US get on the right path to energy independence. Both are the right reasons! If he were looking for some charity/salvation angle, he could have simply donated $1B to United Way and been very well remembered...
I've been quite active on PickensPlan for 2+ months now. Because it makes sense. I'm an inventor, a futurist, and even a dreamer, but I'm not a do-gooder. If my work benefits mankind, great! As long as I derive the first benefit from my work. I'm not greedy, just practical.
There certainly are kool-aid drinkers among the crowd; every crowd has'em. But if you examine it critically, you'll see the value and the benefit that we, the American people will derive from the plans' success.
I'll go toe-to-toe with anyone that thinks the profit motive is "wrong" -- not just about the PickensPlan, but on the whole ball of wax.
The Light is Green!
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Hi Fellow FTP users!
I'm curious to hear what some of you think of this plan. I've heard some say that it's not "so" great and that Pickens is in it for what might be considered the "wrong" reasons...I've researched this some but would like to hear from you all and your perspectives and insight and your own research, good or bad, on how his plan can help and if not his plan, what we need to do to get off oil!
Thanks,
Billy