General Discussions:
Green Talk
Kids Eco Corner
Spam-Carbon Footprint
Natural Skin Care
Transportation:
Eco Roadside Assistance
Biodiesel/Clean Diesel
Carbon Offsets
Electric Bicycles
Electric Vehicles
Fuel Cell & Concept Vehicles
Hybrid Vehicles
Public Transportation
CNG/LNG
Clean Power Alternatives:
Batteries & Storage Devices
Geothermal & Ground Source Power
Hydro-Electric
Solar Power
Wind Power
Green Events:
Eco Chic Events
Green Hollywood
Garage:
Hazardous Material Storage/Disposal
Garden & Yard:
Green Garden & Yard
Compost
Recycling
Household:
Green Building
Energy Efficient Homes
Food
Green Furniture
Retrofitting Older Homes
Stop Your Junk Mail
Water:
Quality New!
Supply New!
Desalination New!
Want Us to Add a Forum?
click here
Ed on Larry King -- Aug 4, 08 panelist for T. Boone Pickens
Being from Texas myself (the DFW area) I thought I'd chime in on this topic. Although what he (being Pickens) is doing is a really good idea, the main issue is why he's really doing it (in my opinion, anyway). The real reason why he's doing it is so that he can sell water to the Dallas area under the power lines from this wonderful wind plant. He wouldn't have been able to simply pump the water to Dallas because of right-of-way issues, but Texas allows him to add a water pipeline under the wind farm for "cooling" purposes -- convient isn't it?
Actually, I'm not. The year before last, the majority of the DFW was under stage 3 water restrictions, as we received very little rain and were under a severe drought. When you factor this in with the projected population expansion of the DFW metropolitan area, you can see why water is as valuable as it is. This is his way to "hedge his bets" so to speak, in thinking that water will be the new commodity of the future, I suppose.
So why the scorn & sarcasm? You're thirsty in the desert and you criticize the man who brings you water? Damning with faint praise is just as bad.
He could afford all the water he wants. Didn't have to do what he's doing... Hedging bets is sound business, getting double value from an investment is smart business.
Complaining that someone is making a profit on their investment & efforts is "Socialist, Communist, Fascist, Progressive", how about just plain dumb.
Who is John Galt?
I think you're missing my point -- I'm not complaining about the fact that he's a good business man, nor am I complaining that he's making a profit on the water. What I am complaining about is that he's using the "greeness" of the wind power, and a loophole in Texas law to exploit another natural resource. The Ogallala aquifer (which is where this water is coming from) is already being depleted by the farmers in the area, and all he's doing is exploiting it more, in the hopes of higher prices to the metro areas.
This isn't really what I'm complaining about. What I disagree with is the use of the wind power to allow him to transport the water to the area. Here's what he's done:
He purchased 200,000 acres worth of groundwater rights in Roberts County, Texas, located over the Ogallala Aquifer, totally $100 million. In order to get this water to the metro areas, he has to buy right-of-ways through ranch and farm land. To get around this issue (what if a farmer or rancher doesn't sell their land?) this is what he did:
"At Pickens' behest, the Texas legislature changed state law to allow
the two residents of an 8-acre parcel of land in Roberts County to vote
to create a municipal water district, a government agency with eminent
domain powers. Who were the voters? They were Pickens' wife and the
manager of Pickens' nearby ranch. And who sits on the board of
directors of this water district? They are the parcel's three other
non-resident landowners, all Pickens' employees. "
"What's this got to do with Pickens' wind-power plan? Just as he needs
pipelines to sell his water, he also needs transmission lines to sell
his wind-generated power. Rights of way for transmission lines are also
acquired through eminent domain -- and, once again, the Texas
legislature has come to Pickens' aid."
Therein lies my issue with his plan.

The pickens plan is based on the mis information that natual gas is abundant and clean. We hit peak NG in 2004. Ask anyone that is connected to it and you will find the prices have shot up 20-30% the past year or 2.
Pickens needs to pick renewable energy and use it efficiently.
I hope Ed helped clear the air. I didn't see the show.
the solar stacks
Sorry, I gotta disagree, NG prices have been increasing because demand is soaring. And that's because on a BTU basic it's still cheap.
Here in the northeast, we get out gas from a 'long' pipeline. There are so many consumers that the customers at the end of the line are barely able to get suitable flow, even though the supply end is pushing 110% capacity.
The Pickens plan is about direrting demand for electricity from NG to Wind and then diverting the same NG to transportation to offset foreign oil.
My interest in the plan is that I can deliver electrical energy equivalent to 1/4 million bbloe per day into the us economy in 5 years time. All that means is that somewhat less fuel needs to be burned somewhere to provide the same number of MWH to the American consumer.
I don't know where the diverted fuel will go, neither do I care. That's for other markets to determine.
BTW Ed seemed to be very much in agreement with the goals and broad strokes of the Plan.
New Forum Topics
- Asia's Largest conference on Renewable Energy and Clean Technology
- Green Energy Summit 2009
- Electric Bike Shop in Stuart Florida could hold solution to many of our problems today...
- March for Renewable Energy!
- Water Purification
- Life Source Water Filter
- Green house effect
- Link Building
- Washington DC Green Festival 2008 November 8-9
- New to Forum
- Got to be a better way....
- Recycling Household Items at RefusedReused.com
- Recycling unwanted household items at RefusedReused.com
- Mold & Mildew
- Smokers Impact on the Environment
- Be Water Wise...
- Do Food Miles Matter...??
- Electric bicycle retailer needs your opinion
- Convert your old fridge into a heat pump
- The Picken's Plan???
Active Forum Topics
- Green Energy Summit 2009
- Asia's Largest conference on Renewable Energy and Clean Technology
- Green house effect
- CNG vs LNG
- Electric Bike Shop in Stuart Florida could hold solution to many of our problems today...
- Got to be a better way....
- Water Purification
- All organic skin care containing marine phytoplankton
- Link Building
- Life Source Water Filter
- March for Renewable Energy!
- Stopping junk mail
- The Picken's Plan???
- Los Angeles to ban plastic bags by 2010
- Washington DC Green Festival 2008 November 8-9


The Pickens Plan http://push.pickensplan.com/ is making enormous headway to bring the energy situation to the focus. Nearly 100,000 folks have signed up recently, (10,000 in the past week of so)
Ed spoke with entheusiasm and made some good points. I was hoping he'd mention FTP... but alas.
I hope I can encourage folks here interested in energy to come by and join the Plan.
I'm what you could call active in the Solar Power group. I hope to see you there.